I Have A Complaint

The new 2005 Baseball Prospectus has started shipping. Though my copy has not arrived yet, I’m hearing that the Braves section includes a study of Leo Mazzone’s effectiveness as a pitching coach that looks very familiar, yet Sabernomics receives not a mention.

I would chalk this up to an accident, but since BPro actually cited my study on it’s own website, it’s hard to play ignorant. Thanks for nothing guys.

7 Responses “I Have A Complaint”

  1. Anonymous says:

    As J Peterman once said – its a Ziggy to the archives. Love the irony.

  2. Anonymous says:

    I haven’t read the BP article yet, as my book has not arrived yet. Your study was very good and detailed–I will have to see what BP says.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Very, very uncool. If anyone is reading this, listen up: this movement has been successful largely because creative people like JC have been willing to share their research with others. Sabermetrics never would have gained any steam if it had started out with a price tag…

  4. Anonymous says:

    BP should have mentioned your study – but their results are less rosey. They took some non-statistically sound data points and eliminated them – ex. Steve Avery who was burned out and would have lost it with or without Mazzone.

    Also they took out the impact of the big three. Maddux won a Cy Young in Chicago and then a few more in Atl. How much credit should Mazzone get. The decline last year from the Mazzone average is more to do with age than pitching coaches.

    The impact was there but not as large as you state. The real point is they should have mentioned your work.

  5. Anonymous says:

    Waitasec. JC’s (and the subsequent primer studies) took into account how good a player was before pitching with Mazzone, which would account for Maddux’s pre-Mazzone success. Also, some of Steve Avery’s decline phase occured on Mazzone’s watch, so the study accounts for that also. Removing Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz, as the author of the BPro article does, is unfair because those three pitchers accounted for probably close to 45% of the total innings pitched for the Braves over that period.

  6. Anonymous says:

    One thing that’s really nice about HardballTimes articles is their insistence on the bibliography. Even if there’s a research piece that’s not referenced in their article, they point the reader to other articles of interest.

    I think that all of us should strive for that level of detail.


    For my experience, Woolner did cite my work on run distribution in the win expectancy chapter, (though, strangely, the “leverage” part did not).

  7. Anonymous says:

    Part of the issue is how do you look at the data. Both groups look at the binary variable – With and without Mazzone.

    The rationale for taking out Avery out of the sample is that the average Avery under Mazzone is better than without – the Avery when he left Atlanta should be compared to the last two season of Avery not the average.