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	<title>Comments on: The Incredible Shrinking Marcus Giles</title>
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	<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/</link>
	<description>Economic Thinking about Baseball</description>
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		<title>By: rynliquid</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/comment-page-1/#comment-5677</link>
		<dc:creator>rynliquid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 20:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/#comment-5677</guid>
		<description>Addressing the &quot;Giles looks thin&quot; comment.  I don&#039;t remember the details exactly, but remember that he didn&#039;t play most of spring training due to medical problems involving one of his children.  

I would imagine that having an effect on getting into playing shape.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addressing the &#8220;Giles looks thin&#8221; comment.  I don&#8217;t remember the details exactly, but remember that he didn&#8217;t play most of spring training due to medical problems involving one of his children.  </p>
<p>I would imagine that having an effect on getting into playing shape.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/comment-page-1/#comment-5676</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 17:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you for the explanation.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the explanation.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/comment-page-1/#comment-5675</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 17:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hmmm... Matt said,
&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;It’ll be a huge relief when we get to the point where the “S” word isn’t invoked into every baseball conversation.&quot;&gt;

Unfortunately, while we may want to believe that the &#039;S&#039; word will go away, I&#039;m afraid that will never be the case.  As time goes on, there will be better masking agents and newer, undetectable manufactured steroids to go along with HGH (and remember, there is no good test for HGH now).  Performance enhancers will be part of baseball for as long as the salaries are in the millions and people are willing to part with a few quality years at the end of their lifespan for an extra few million dollars.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230; Matt said,</p>
<blockquote cite="It’ll be a huge relief when we get to the point where the “S” word isn’t invoked into every baseball conversation.">
<p>Unfortunately, while we may want to believe that the &#8216;S&#8217; word will go away, I&#8217;m afraid that will never be the case.  As time goes on, there will be better masking agents and newer, undetectable manufactured steroids to go along with HGH (and remember, there is no good test for HGH now).  Performance enhancers will be part of baseball for as long as the salaries are in the millions and people are willing to part with a few quality years at the end of their lifespan for an extra few million dollars.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Subrata Sircar</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/comment-page-1/#comment-5667</link>
		<dc:creator>Subrata Sircar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 01:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/#comment-5667</guid>
		<description>When most statheads talk about luck, they tend to mean &quot;reality differs from the model&quot;.  In other words, based on Giles&#039; other statistics, the PrOPS model believes his OPS should be X, while it actually is Y.  If Y is higher than X, the player is lucky; if it&#039;s lower than X, he&#039;s unlucky.  (These assessments have value in direct proportion to the predictive power of the model over the period you&#039;re attempting to study.)

A more precise, but useless explanation would be &quot;factors unaccounted for in our model created the difference between PrOPS and OPS&quot; i.e. lucky = &quot;beneficial unaccounted factors&quot;.  A more useful version is &quot;factors unaccounted for in our model, &lt;i&gt;which we believe have no predictive value&lt;/i&gt;, produced the difference between PrOPS and OPS&quot;.

That italicized phrase is the key.  It is unlikely, for example, that the flash of sunlight off someone&#039;s watch that happened to blind the CF as he tipped Giles&#039; fly ball over the wall would be repeated; if that happens enough during a season, it will skew the numbers, but it is unlikely to happen again next season.

Thus, &quot;lucky&quot; = &quot;it was a fluke, it helped and it probably won&#039;t happen again&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When most statheads talk about luck, they tend to mean &#8220;reality differs from the model&#8221;.  In other words, based on Giles&#8217; other statistics, the PrOPS model believes his OPS should be X, while it actually is Y.  If Y is higher than X, the player is lucky; if it&#8217;s lower than X, he&#8217;s unlucky.  (These assessments have value in direct proportion to the predictive power of the model over the period you&#8217;re attempting to study.)</p>
<p>A more precise, but useless explanation would be &#8220;factors unaccounted for in our model created the difference between PrOPS and OPS&#8221; i.e. lucky = &#8220;beneficial unaccounted factors&#8221;.  A more useful version is &#8220;factors unaccounted for in our model, <i>which we believe have no predictive value</i>, produced the difference between PrOPS and OPS&#8221;.</p>
<p>That italicized phrase is the key.  It is unlikely, for example, that the flash of sunlight off someone&#8217;s watch that happened to blind the CF as he tipped Giles&#8217; fly ball over the wall would be repeated; if that happens enough during a season, it will skew the numbers, but it is unlikely to happen again next season.</p>
<p>Thus, &#8220;lucky&#8221; = &#8220;it was a fluke, it helped and it probably won&#8217;t happen again&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Subrata Sircar</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/comment-page-1/#comment-5666</link>
		<dc:creator>Subrata Sircar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 01:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/#comment-5666</guid>
		<description>When most statheads talk about luck, they tend to mean &quot;reality differs from the model&quot;.  :which we believe have no predictive value, produced the difference between PrOPS and OPS&quot;.

That italicized phrase is the key.  It is unlikely, for example, that the flash of sunlight off someone&#039;s watch that happened to blind the CF as he tipped Giles&#039; fly ball over the wall would be repeated; if that happens enough during a season, it will skew the numbers, but it is unlikely to happen again next season.

Thus, &quot;lucky&quot; = &quot;it was a fluke, it helped and it probably won&#039;t happen again&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When most statheads talk about luck, they tend to mean &#8220;reality differs from the model&#8221;.  :which we believe have no predictive value, produced the difference between PrOPS and OPS&#8221;.</p>
<p>That italicized phrase is the key.  It is unlikely, for example, that the flash of sunlight off someone&#8217;s watch that happened to blind the CF as he tipped Giles&#8217; fly ball over the wall would be repeated; if that happens enough during a season, it will skew the numbers, but it is unlikely to happen again next season.</p>
<p>Thus, &#8220;lucky&#8221; = &#8220;it was a fluke, it helped and it probably won&#8217;t happen again&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/comment-page-1/#comment-5608</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 21:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/#comment-5608</guid>
		<description>I agree with JC; no one should lightly throw around accusations based on the idea that a player &quot;looks&quot; different.  That is nasty business.

It&#039;s not unusual in baseball history for players to have several very good years, then drop off.  Giles may simply have lost something in his swing or technique or his body may have gone through some sort of natural change that affects his mechanics.  The point is, there could be lots of reasons for the dropoff (and, after all, it&#039;s still very early in the season) without bringing steroids in without any evidence.  Clearly, though, Giles has at least leveled off.  But that&#039;s been true of a lot of Braves players over the years--they get to a certain point and then plateau.

I have one question. I don&#039;t really understand the concept of a player being lucky or unlucky.  Obviously, it&#039;s a statistical concept based on the various sabermetric measurements.  I&#039;m not that well-versed in this stuff.  Just what exactly does it mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with JC; no one should lightly throw around accusations based on the idea that a player &#8220;looks&#8221; different.  That is nasty business.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not unusual in baseball history for players to have several very good years, then drop off.  Giles may simply have lost something in his swing or technique or his body may have gone through some sort of natural change that affects his mechanics.  The point is, there could be lots of reasons for the dropoff (and, after all, it&#8217;s still very early in the season) without bringing steroids in without any evidence.  Clearly, though, Giles has at least leveled off.  But that&#8217;s been true of a lot of Braves players over the years&#8211;they get to a certain point and then plateau.</p>
<p>I have one question. I don&#8217;t really understand the concept of a player being lucky or unlucky.  Obviously, it&#8217;s a statistical concept based on the various sabermetric measurements.  I&#8217;m not that well-versed in this stuff.  Just what exactly does it mean?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/comment-page-1/#comment-5603</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 02:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I like what JEC says about statistical dropoffs not being the only indicator of steroid use, especially considering the fact that there has not been ANY PROVEN indicator of steroid use to date.  

It&#039;ll be a huge relief when we get to the point where the &quot;S&quot; word isn&#039;t invoked into every baseball conversation.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like what JEC says about statistical dropoffs not being the only indicator of steroid use, especially considering the fact that there has not been ANY PROVEN indicator of steroid use to date.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;ll be a huge relief when we get to the point where the &#8220;S&#8221; word isn&#8217;t invoked into every baseball conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/comment-page-1/#comment-5602</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 21:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>He might have voluntarily lost some bulk so that he could speed up- he&#039;s known for awhile he would be in the leadoff spot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He might have voluntarily lost some bulk so that he could speed up- he&#8217;s known for awhile he would be in the leadoff spot.</p>
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		<title>By: JC</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/comment-page-1/#comment-5601</link>
		<dc:creator>JC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 20:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
How do you explain why he used to look like a professional body builder and last year he came to camp so thin he looked like his skin was falling off his face?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;ve watched Marcus since came up. He looks no different to me. I&#039;ve never heard anyone else comment on his physique like that. Even if it&#039;s true, muscles are not necessarily steroid-induced. It&#039;s nasty business to accuse people of using steroids on such flimsy evidence. I think people need to be more careful.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
How do you explain why he used to look like a professional body builder and last year he came to camp so thin he looked like his skin was falling off his face?
</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve watched Marcus since came up. He looks no different to me. I&#8217;ve never heard anyone else comment on his physique like that. Even if it&#8217;s true, muscles are not necessarily steroid-induced. It&#8217;s nasty business to accuse people of using steroids on such flimsy evidence. I think people need to be more careful.</p>
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		<title>By: JEC</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/comment-page-1/#comment-5600</link>
		<dc:creator>JEC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 20:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/05/the-incredible-shrinking-marcus-giles/#comment-5600</guid>
		<description>How do you explain why he used to look like a professional body builder and last year he came to camp so thin he looked like his skin was falling off his face? 

Statistical drop-offs aren&#039;t the only indicators of steroid use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you explain why he used to look like a professional body builder and last year he came to camp so thin he looked like his skin was falling off his face? </p>
<p>Statistical drop-offs aren&#8217;t the only indicators of steroid use.</p>
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