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	<title>Comments on: Racist Referees Again</title>
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	<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/</link>
	<description>Economic Thinking about Baseball</description>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/comment-page-1/#comment-47828</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 02:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/#comment-47828</guid>
		<description>Rachel, 

I think what this study is trying to pick up is not a conscious level of racial hatred. I think the word racist needs to be replaced by subconscious racial preference. Similar to that of the Implicit Association Test (IAT) study discussed by Malcolm Gladwell in Blink.  It’s not stupid to study these issues. The more we can attempt to (ethically) learn about human behavior the better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel, </p>
<p>I think what this study is trying to pick up is not a conscious level of racial hatred. I think the word racist needs to be replaced by subconscious racial preference. Similar to that of the Implicit Association Test (IAT) study discussed by Malcolm Gladwell in Blink.  It’s not stupid to study these issues. The more we can attempt to (ethically) learn about human behavior the better.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Wilcox</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/comment-page-1/#comment-47752</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Wilcox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2007 12:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/#comment-47752</guid>
		<description>Rachel:
&lt;i&gt;I think this whole racist referees issue is dumb. Since when do people watch a game and automatically assume a ref’s call is racist? I think it’s just an excuse to start lawsuits. I think all referees do their best especially at the professional level. I seriously doubt many, if ANY referees seriously base their foul calling on race. It’s just not ethical. They’re at the professional level, being paid a lot of money. Why would any of these referees do anything to jeopardize that?&lt;/i&gt;
It seems to me that you may have missed the point of the study. I highly doubt that the study is an attempt to show that referees are necessarily &quot;racist&quot;, or that they &quot;base their foul calling on race&quot; - the study&#039;s trying to show that it&#039;s possible even for someone who&#039;s &quot;do[ing] their best[...]at the professional level&quot; to have some degree of prejudice, and that&#039;s it&#039;s quite possible to allow those prejudices to influence one&#039;s judgment. One&#039;s salary and outward professionalism does not preclude one from being influenced by non-professional, even subconscious, thought processes.

&lt;i&gt;just don’t agree with this study on racist referees. I think it’s a waste of time.&lt;/i&gt;
And I think the study could give a valuable insight into the ability of prejudices and personal emotion to cloud professional judgment; referees aren&#039;t machines, nor are they all-seeing. Compound that with the fact that technical fouls, which can include greater subjective judgment than regular fouls, were included in the study and we get a better picture of the study&#039;s thrust - when the decision of whether or not to call a foul is not a purely binary &quot;this happened or it didn&#039;t&quot; situation, the study attempts to investigate the question of whether or not the referee&#039;s own mentality could have influenced their call.

&lt;i&gt;
No one has said that &quot;no one knows which referee actually blew the whistle&quot;. In fact, the NBA seems to indicate that they have sufficiently granular data that they do, indeed, know who blew the whistle on each and every call of the 150,000 plays in their own study. They&#039;re just not releasing that data outside of their own study.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel:<br />
<i>I think this whole racist referees issue is dumb. Since when do people watch a game and automatically assume a ref’s call is racist? I think it’s just an excuse to start lawsuits. I think all referees do their best especially at the professional level. I seriously doubt many, if ANY referees seriously base their foul calling on race. It’s just not ethical. They’re at the professional level, being paid a lot of money. Why would any of these referees do anything to jeopardize that?</i><br />
It seems to me that you may have missed the point of the study. I highly doubt that the study is an attempt to show that referees are necessarily &#8220;racist&#8221;, or that they &#8220;base their foul calling on race&#8221; &#8211; the study&#8217;s trying to show that it&#8217;s possible even for someone who&#8217;s &#8220;do[ing] their best[...]at the professional level&#8221; to have some degree of prejudice, and that&#8217;s it&#8217;s quite possible to allow those prejudices to influence one&#8217;s judgment. One&#8217;s salary and outward professionalism does not preclude one from being influenced by non-professional, even subconscious, thought processes.</p>
<p><i>just don’t agree with this study on racist referees. I think it’s a waste of time.</i><br />
And I think the study could give a valuable insight into the ability of prejudices and personal emotion to cloud professional judgment; referees aren&#8217;t machines, nor are they all-seeing. Compound that with the fact that technical fouls, which can include greater subjective judgment than regular fouls, were included in the study and we get a better picture of the study&#8217;s thrust &#8211; when the decision of whether or not to call a foul is not a purely binary &#8220;this happened or it didn&#8217;t&#8221; situation, the study attempts to investigate the question of whether or not the referee&#8217;s own mentality could have influenced their call.</p>
<p><i><br />
No one has said that &#8220;no one knows which referee actually blew the whistle&#8221;. In fact, the NBA seems to indicate that they have sufficiently granular data that they do, indeed, know who blew the whistle on each and every call of the 150,000 plays in their own study. They&#8217;re just not releasing that data outside of their own study.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/comment-page-1/#comment-47654</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 18:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/#comment-47654</guid>
		<description>I think this whole racist referees issue is dumb.  Since when do people watch a game and automatically assume a ref&#039;s call is recist?  I think it&#039;s just an excuse to start lawsuits.  I think all referees do their best especially at the professional level.  I seriously doubt many, if ANY referees seriously base their foul calling on race.  It&#039;s just not ethical.  They&#039;re at the professional level, being paid a lot of money. Why would any of these referees do anything to jeopardize that? I just don&#039;t agree with this study on racist referees.  I think it&#039;s a waste of time.  Like the publisher said, no one knows which referee actually blew the whistle, so how can this study be correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this whole racist referees issue is dumb.  Since when do people watch a game and automatically assume a ref&#8217;s call is recist?  I think it&#8217;s just an excuse to start lawsuits.  I think all referees do their best especially at the professional level.  I seriously doubt many, if ANY referees seriously base their foul calling on race.  It&#8217;s just not ethical.  They&#8217;re at the professional level, being paid a lot of money. Why would any of these referees do anything to jeopardize that? I just don&#8217;t agree with this study on racist referees.  I think it&#8217;s a waste of time.  Like the publisher said, no one knows which referee actually blew the whistle, so how can this study be correct?</p>
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		<title>By: SkepSys</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/comment-page-1/#comment-47449</link>
		<dc:creator>SkepSys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 22:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/#comment-47449</guid>
		<description>&quot;about 22 16-hour days&quot; 
Sorry, that should say - &#039;22 weeks of 16-hour days.&#039;
Assuming 2 hours per game, on average.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;about 22 16-hour days&#8221;<br />
Sorry, that should say &#8211; &#8217;22 weeks of 16-hour days.&#8217;<br />
Assuming 2 hours per game, on average.</p>
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		<title>By: SkepSys</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/comment-page-1/#comment-47448</link>
		<dc:creator>SkepSys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 22:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/#comment-47448</guid>
		<description>I think the NBA is making a mistake by not releasing the database for study.  Their attempts to discredit the research and issue positive talking points won&#039;t remove the image of racism, which is not intended by the authors.  It just seems petty and alienating to the fans.  They should be more open with the community that researches their product and has the fans&#039; ear.  The NBA has never been open to the research community though, not even the counting of blocks and steals until their monopoly was threatened by the ABA.  

Creating a database of referee calls from scratch is now very difficult or impossible.  It would require: obtaining copies of the 1230 NBA games per year, presumably from the same source that is withholding the database; sitting through the games while tabulating (about 22 16-hour days, if the tabulating is immediate); and guess on the calls made offscreen; and then clean the errors.  Not possible, but surely not a legal issue either, as the data is public, if not condensed.  Although, the red tape of a corporate legal department can take a long time just to make that evaluation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the NBA is making a mistake by not releasing the database for study.  Their attempts to discredit the research and issue positive talking points won&#8217;t remove the image of racism, which is not intended by the authors.  It just seems petty and alienating to the fans.  They should be more open with the community that researches their product and has the fans&#8217; ear.  The NBA has never been open to the research community though, not even the counting of blocks and steals until their monopoly was threatened by the ABA.  </p>
<p>Creating a database of referee calls from scratch is now very difficult or impossible.  It would require: obtaining copies of the 1230 NBA games per year, presumably from the same source that is withholding the database; sitting through the games while tabulating (about 22 16-hour days, if the tabulating is immediate); and guess on the calls made offscreen; and then clean the errors.  Not possible, but surely not a legal issue either, as the data is public, if not condensed.  Although, the red tape of a corporate legal department can take a long time just to make that evaluation.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Wilcox</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/comment-page-1/#comment-47447</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Wilcox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 22:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/#comment-47447</guid>
		<description>Kyle:
A few rebuttals. First off the bat, we have the issue of asymmetric information being utilized to its fullest by the NBA, claiming &quot;our data proves that you&#039;re wrong&quot; while simultaneously saying &quot;we won&#039;t let you see that data&quot;. It&#039;s a schoolyard game, not an honest response - especially when you take into consideration Litvin&#039;s accusal that the researchers were &quot;trying to prove that individual referees, black vs. white, white vs. black, showed bias&quot;. While you say lamenting the lack of sufficiently granular data is &quot;whining&quot;, I&#039;d say Litvin&#039;s comment is closer to the target there.

Second, and this one&#039;s really short: If the granular data can be re-created via public information (game footage), then the granular data is already public information, and thus your &lt;i&gt;argumentum ad djinn&lt;/i&gt; is seemingly moot. Especially in light of Dr. Bradbury&#039;s suggestion:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Supply them with the NBA’s data with the stipulation that the economists not reveal anything more than their findings. This removes the privacy concerns. After all, the NBA was willing to share its data with the private firm it hired to do the study. The data stays secret and we get an independent evaluation of the conflict.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kyle:<br />
A few rebuttals. First off the bat, we have the issue of asymmetric information being utilized to its fullest by the NBA, claiming &#8220;our data proves that you&#8217;re wrong&#8221; while simultaneously saying &#8220;we won&#8217;t let you see that data&#8221;. It&#8217;s a schoolyard game, not an honest response &#8211; especially when you take into consideration Litvin&#8217;s accusal that the researchers were &#8220;trying to prove that individual referees, black vs. white, white vs. black, showed bias&#8221;. While you say lamenting the lack of sufficiently granular data is &#8220;whining&#8221;, I&#8217;d say Litvin&#8217;s comment is closer to the target there.</p>
<p>Second, and this one&#8217;s really short: If the granular data can be re-created via public information (game footage), then the granular data is already public information, and thus your <i>argumentum ad djinn</i> is seemingly moot. Especially in light of Dr. Bradbury&#8217;s suggestion:</p>
<blockquote><p>Supply them with the NBA’s data with the stipulation that the economists not reveal anything more than their findings. This removes the privacy concerns. After all, the NBA was willing to share its data with the private firm it hired to do the study. The data stays secret and we get an independent evaluation of the conflict.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: tangotiger</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/comment-page-1/#comment-47443</link>
		<dc:creator>tangotiger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 20:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/#comment-47443</guid>
		<description>The biggest showing was in the all-white versus all-black crews (see Table 3).  Therefore, you already know the race of the whistle-blower, if you limit the study to these groups.  The age of the referee, his quality (did he make the post-season), and simply the small number of referees to begin with, might all have an impact as well.  As written elsewhere, maybe it&#039;s Euro-whites and american-white issue, not black/white.  What we can be sure of is that it&#039;s something, though not what is being reported.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest showing was in the all-white versus all-black crews (see Table 3).  Therefore, you already know the race of the whistle-blower, if you limit the study to these groups.  The age of the referee, his quality (did he make the post-season), and simply the small number of referees to begin with, might all have an impact as well.  As written elsewhere, maybe it&#8217;s Euro-whites and american-white issue, not black/white.  What we can be sure of is that it&#8217;s something, though not what is being reported.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle S</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/comment-page-1/#comment-47407</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 14:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/#comment-47407</guid>
		<description>First, the NBA&#039;s lawyers probably don&#039;t allow Stern to share that data with anyone for legal reasons. Once it&#039;s in the wild, there&#039;s no getting it back. 

Second, they absolutely shouldn&#039;t turn over the data unless they know what the result is going to be and are comfortable with that being aired in public. What if the independent researchers come back saying referees X, Y, and Z are racists? This is something that the NBA should find out for themselves but not necessarily in this setting - they can conduct the analysis during the offseason and quietly not renew those referees&#039; contracts.

Finally, the complaint about the NBA not sharing its data seems like so much whining to me. The authors could probably find game film of all those games and log all the foul calls themselves.  Sure it would be much easier to use the NBA&#039;s database, but that data could easily be recreated with some effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, the NBA&#8217;s lawyers probably don&#8217;t allow Stern to share that data with anyone for legal reasons. Once it&#8217;s in the wild, there&#8217;s no getting it back. </p>
<p>Second, they absolutely shouldn&#8217;t turn over the data unless they know what the result is going to be and are comfortable with that being aired in public. What if the independent researchers come back saying referees X, Y, and Z are racists? This is something that the NBA should find out for themselves but not necessarily in this setting &#8211; they can conduct the analysis during the offseason and quietly not renew those referees&#8217; contracts.</p>
<p>Finally, the complaint about the NBA not sharing its data seems like so much whining to me. The authors could probably find game film of all those games and log all the foul calls themselves.  Sure it would be much easier to use the NBA&#8217;s database, but that data could easily be recreated with some effort.</p>
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		<title>By: Everyday Economist</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/comment-page-1/#comment-47406</link>
		<dc:creator>Everyday Economist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 14:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2007/05/racist-referees-again/#comment-47406</guid>
		<description>I agree that looking at refereeing crews rather than individuals could be erroneous.

However, I would also like to point out that the paper looks at technical fouls.  In my opinion technical fouls would be much more prone to emotion and bias than personal fouls.  The coefficient on blackplayer*%white referees is not statistically significant in this case.

Also, why is the dependent variable fouls per 48 minutes instead of fouls per game?  This seems to suggest that the dependent variable not give equal weight to those who come in to the game for only a few minutes and commit a foul.  This shows up in the data as well:

Mean Fouls per game:

Black players -- 2.5
White players -- 2.5

Mean fouls per 48 minutes:

Black players -- 4.3
White players -- 4.97</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that looking at refereeing crews rather than individuals could be erroneous.</p>
<p>However, I would also like to point out that the paper looks at technical fouls.  In my opinion technical fouls would be much more prone to emotion and bias than personal fouls.  The coefficient on blackplayer*%white referees is not statistically significant in this case.</p>
<p>Also, why is the dependent variable fouls per 48 minutes instead of fouls per game?  This seems to suggest that the dependent variable not give equal weight to those who come in to the game for only a few minutes and commit a foul.  This shows up in the data as well:</p>
<p>Mean Fouls per game:</p>
<p>Black players &#8212; 2.5<br />
White players &#8212; 2.5</p>
<p>Mean fouls per 48 minutes:</p>
<p>Black players &#8212; 4.3<br />
White players &#8212; 4.97</p>
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