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	<title>Comments on: Breaking Down the Gwinnett Braves Stadium Deal</title>
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	<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/</link>
	<description>Economic Thinking about Baseball</description>
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		<title>By: GCB</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-94686</link>
		<dc:creator>GCB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/#comment-94686</guid>
		<description>There are a few factors in this deal that were not made public.

1...Who made the decisions?......answer.....The very people that &quot;OWN&quot; the developement around the new stadium are the people that control the executive board of the Gwinnett Convention and visitors buerough.....Selling the Braves a deal they could not refuse, owning the property, and then selling the county board members the &quot;DEAL&quot; on 12 of the 70 acres of land to build the stadium.

2...All the deals were done by the GCVB executive board.....and brought to the county as a package with the stipulation that it had to be done VERY QUICKLY and QUIETLY.....It was a raw deal for Gwinnett and pushed down the commissioners throats without giving a chance to rebut facts.

3...There was a couple of privately owned stadium deals very close to being implimented without any public money at all......These were known about by the GVCB Executive board members, and the Board of commissioners......Why were they not even considered for this deal....it would have saved the county an estimated $100,000,000 over the 30 years...

It is very important for the taxpayers to start asking questions......

1..Who owns the properties and development around the stadium....answer.....the very people that made the decision on where it would go...


2..who is going to pay for this stadium......who is going to reap all the benefits from the county building this stadium....answer....the owners of the land around it, and the braves(that was the tool these people used to get them away from Richmond)

3..The most important question.....Who made these decissions to spend taxpayers money, on a private development, and hand all the revenue sources to the Braves....The executive board of the GCVB....and why did the county commissioners roll over and except this deal without even questioning who was involved, and what it would cost our taxpayers....and what return we would get.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a few factors in this deal that were not made public.</p>
<p>1&#8230;Who made the decisions?&#8230;&#8230;answer&#8230;..The very people that &#8220;OWN&#8221; the developement around the new stadium are the people that control the executive board of the Gwinnett Convention and visitors buerough&#8230;..Selling the Braves a deal they could not refuse, owning the property, and then selling the county board members the &#8220;DEAL&#8221; on 12 of the 70 acres of land to build the stadium.</p>
<p>2&#8230;All the deals were done by the GCVB executive board&#8230;..and brought to the county as a package with the stipulation that it had to be done VERY QUICKLY and QUIETLY&#8230;..It was a raw deal for Gwinnett and pushed down the commissioners throats without giving a chance to rebut facts.</p>
<p>3&#8230;There was a couple of privately owned stadium deals very close to being implimented without any public money at all&#8230;&#8230;These were known about by the GVCB Executive board members, and the Board of commissioners&#8230;&#8230;Why were they not even considered for this deal&#8230;.it would have saved the county an estimated $100,000,000 over the 30 years&#8230;</p>
<p>It is very important for the taxpayers to start asking questions&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>1..Who owns the properties and development around the stadium&#8230;.answer&#8230;..the very people that made the decision on where it would go&#8230;</p>
<p>2..who is going to pay for this stadium&#8230;&#8230;who is going to reap all the benefits from the county building this stadium&#8230;.answer&#8230;.the owners of the land around it, and the braves(that was the tool these people used to get them away from Richmond)</p>
<p>3..The most important question&#8230;..Who made these decissions to spend taxpayers money, on a private development, and hand all the revenue sources to the Braves&#8230;.The executive board of the GCVB&#8230;.and why did the county commissioners roll over and except this deal without even questioning who was involved, and what it would cost our taxpayers&#8230;.and what return we would get&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-85906</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/#comment-85906</guid>
		<description>All of this critcisim is just another example of how the gwinnett folks want to stay in 1980. The mall has brought traffic but it also brought the acre per land from 3k to 30k. It has brought homes and jobs. Braselton and North would still be ghost towns with out north developemnt. We must keep the growth to keep things moving. 

I also as many would have liked more details before we made the deccision but in the pass the leaders couldnt put in  traffic light with out the whole county trying to stop it. Keep up the good work as in any biz. the details will work them self out over time. I belive we can and will hit the attendace needed as it will be family fun at a lower price then going downtown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of this critcisim is just another example of how the gwinnett folks want to stay in 1980. The mall has brought traffic but it also brought the acre per land from 3k to 30k. It has brought homes and jobs. Braselton and North would still be ghost towns with out north developemnt. We must keep the growth to keep things moving. </p>
<p>I also as many would have liked more details before we made the deccision but in the pass the leaders couldnt put in  traffic light with out the whole county trying to stop it. Keep up the good work as in any biz. the details will work them self out over time. I belive we can and will hit the attendace needed as it will be family fun at a lower price then going downtown.</p>
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		<title>By: R.Schreck</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-85236</link>
		<dc:creator>R.Schreck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/#comment-85236</guid>
		<description>I am shocked to find out about this stadium right at our back door. Did no one consider the homeowners that have lived in that area for over 20 years and what this does to our way of life?  Thanks to the Mall being built we now have to plan our travel around the hours of the mall. I can image what traffic will be like now and get worse with time.  Why didn&#039;t these commissioners take a weekend and sit at the intersection of Rocksprings and Buford Drive and watch the traffic build through out the day?  Did they bother to check the history of wrecks in that area since the mall was built?  There are alot of questions that should have been asked had us homeowners had a clue what was going on behind closed doors. Thanks alot commissioners. Job Well Done!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am shocked to find out about this stadium right at our back door. Did no one consider the homeowners that have lived in that area for over 20 years and what this does to our way of life?  Thanks to the Mall being built we now have to plan our travel around the hours of the mall. I can image what traffic will be like now and get worse with time.  Why didn&#8217;t these commissioners take a weekend and sit at the intersection of Rocksprings and Buford Drive and watch the traffic build through out the day?  Did they bother to check the history of wrecks in that area since the mall was built?  There are alot of questions that should have been asked had us homeowners had a clue what was going on behind closed doors. Thanks alot commissioners. Job Well Done!</p>
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		<title>By: Troy</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-85058</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/#comment-85058</guid>
		<description>Somewhat answered my own question.  From this story:

http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?Search=1&amp;ArticleID=9910&amp;SectionID=6&amp;SubSectionID=84&amp;S=1


LAWRENCEVILLE - Gwinnett commissioners plan to impose a new tax to pay for the county&#039;s new baseball stadium.

Officials expect to earn $500,000 a year through a 3 percent tax on car rentals. The money will go to paying off the debt for the stadium.

&quot;It takes the burden off the local taxpayers,&quot; Commissioner Bert Nasuti said of the car rental tax, which is also in place in Atlanta to fund improvements made to Philips Arena in the late 1990s. &quot;The reason you do that is so you don&#039;t raise taxes.

&quot;There&#039;s almost no place in the universe that doesn&#039;t have a rental tax,&quot; he added, referring to large cities. &quot;It&#039;s been a part of the finance plan all along.&quot;

...

According to Gwinnett Finance Director Lisa Johnsa, the yearly payment on the bonds will be determined by a number of factors, but the county expects a total of $1.7 million in revenues from the stadium.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhat answered my own question.  From this story:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?Search=1&amp;ArticleID=9910&amp;SectionID=6&amp;SubSectionID=84&amp;S=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?Search=1&amp;ArticleID=9910&amp;SectionID=6&amp;SubSectionID=84&amp;S=1</a></p>
<p>LAWRENCEVILLE &#8211; Gwinnett commissioners plan to impose a new tax to pay for the county&#8217;s new baseball stadium.</p>
<p>Officials expect to earn $500,000 a year through a 3 percent tax on car rentals. The money will go to paying off the debt for the stadium.</p>
<p>&#8220;It takes the burden off the local taxpayers,&#8221; Commissioner Bert Nasuti said of the car rental tax, which is also in place in Atlanta to fund improvements made to Philips Arena in the late 1990s. &#8220;The reason you do that is so you don&#8217;t raise taxes.</p>
<p>&#8220;There&#8217;s almost no place in the universe that doesn&#8217;t have a rental tax,&#8221; he added, referring to large cities. &#8220;It&#8217;s been a part of the finance plan all along.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>According to Gwinnett Finance Director Lisa Johnsa, the yearly payment on the bonds will be determined by a number of factors, but the county expects a total of $1.7 million in revenues from the stadium.</p>
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		<title>By: Troy</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-84791</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>On top of likely additional taxes/surcharges in the proposed retail/hotel area to accompany the ballpark, is it possible the county could add say a $1 &quot;tax&quot; on ticket sales (in addition to what the tickets sell for) or a special food/beverage sales tax on concessions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On top of likely additional taxes/surcharges in the proposed retail/hotel area to accompany the ballpark, is it possible the county could add say a $1 &#8220;tax&#8221; on ticket sales (in addition to what the tickets sell for) or a special food/beverage sales tax on concessions?</p>
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		<title>By: JC</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-84319</link>
		<dc:creator>JC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 01:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It is not available online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not available online.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark S</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-84312</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Can a copy of the feasibility study - or a link - be posted here for reference?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can a copy of the feasibility study &#8211; or a link &#8211; be posted here for reference?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick L. Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-83217</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick L. Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 06:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am shocked that the local yokel politicians would have the audacity to put their citizens on the hook for a bad deal that benefits a money-making enterprise! I&#039;m just absolutely shocked! What&#039;s further surprising is that they would flaunt the spirit of open government laws to rush all of this through with little public involvement. What has our world come to if we can&#039;t trust the politicians!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am shocked that the local yokel politicians would have the audacity to put their citizens on the hook for a bad deal that benefits a money-making enterprise! I&#8217;m just absolutely shocked! What&#8217;s further surprising is that they would flaunt the spirit of open government laws to rush all of this through with little public involvement. What has our world come to if we can&#8217;t trust the politicians!</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-82947</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m not a resident of Gwinnett County but this deal strikes me as outrageous, especially the arrogance of the officials in negotiating in secret.  At least here in DC, we knew that the City Council was getting ready to give away the farm and people were able to voice their displeasure--and the councilmembers had to vote and be accountable to the public. This is the worst kind of back room politics.  Even if it was a good deal, people have a right to know what their tax dollars are being used for.  Baseball teams are becoming extremely accomplished at manipulating the political process even at the minor league level and shamelessly taking money from the public trough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a resident of Gwinnett County but this deal strikes me as outrageous, especially the arrogance of the officials in negotiating in secret.  At least here in DC, we knew that the City Council was getting ready to give away the farm and people were able to voice their displeasure&#8211;and the councilmembers had to vote and be accountable to the public. This is the worst kind of back room politics.  Even if it was a good deal, people have a right to know what their tax dollars are being used for.  Baseball teams are becoming extremely accomplished at manipulating the political process even at the minor league level and shamelessly taking money from the public trough.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/breaking-down-the-gwinnett-braves-stadium-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-82704</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 03:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>And now that I have read Mr. Thompsons Audit Reports etc etc, I understand what you are getting at on your second point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now that I have read Mr. Thompsons Audit Reports etc etc, I understand what you are getting at on your second point.</p>
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