Comments on: Was Dumping Frank Thomas a Good Idea?

By: kevin

kevin — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:10:11 +0000

One difference between Giambi and Thomas is that Jason is well liked by his teammates and Thomas has a reputation of being surly.

By: Zach

Zach — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:31:11 +0000

This discussion regarding the economics of cutting Thomas makes me wonder about Giambi’s situation. His value can’t be much more than Thomas’s, yet he is owed more than twice as much this season ($21 mil). He also has a $5 million buyout of a $22 mil option next year and a prorated portion of his $17 million signing bonus. I don’t know for sure, but it sounds like a club option. If so, it seems like a foregone conclusion that he’ll be bought out next year since a $5 mil loss is better than a (roughly) $12 mil loss ($10 mil value – $22+ mil salary).

It seems to me that what makes his situation different from Thomas’s is that he doesn’t have that 375 PA threshold for kicking in next year’s salary. So, unless he’s blocking a prospect or is a significant negative clubhouse influence, then it makes sense for the Yankees to ride him out this year.

Also, presumably not factored into JC’s valuations, is the value of Giambi and Thomas NOT playing for a rival. Keeping them gives the added benefit that either player will not jump to the Orioles or Rays. Obviously this is hard to quantify, but is certainly positive and weighs on the minds of general managers.

By: JC

JC — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:41:55 +0000

Thomas’s value with 375 PAs is between $5.5 and $6 million.

By: Rick

Rick — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:22:47 +0000

Ken, the only reason that trading Arroyo was a bad move was because WMP didn’t work out as a regular player. In the AL East he was a league average pitcher at best. Playing in the NL he turned into a top 3rd tier pitcher. He said when the trade went down and when he signed the contract that he knew that signing it wouldn’t mean he wouldn’t get traded.
You don’t think that players would want to play for a team that has a very good chance to get into the post-season every year.

By: Zach

Zach — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:51:36 +0000

JC, what would you project Thomas’s value to be this year with only 375 plate appearances?

By: Merv

Merv — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:16:24 +0000

If this was really a business decision, then why not play Frank Thomas for exactly 375 plate appearances? Then, halfway through the season, Ricciardi goes out and “fortuitously” finds a better DH (either through trade or the farm system) right before Thomas logs his 376th PA.

The fact that the Jays didn’t try something sneaky like this suggests they really just don’t want Thomas’ bat taking up a roster spot, period.

By: Greg Weeks

Greg Weeks — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:43:15 +0000

What about the possible fear that a benched and unhappy Frank Thomas could pull the team down? I am not sure, though, how much money that is worth losing to avoid.

By: Ken Houghton

Ken Houghton — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:24:34 +0000

Trading Arroyo was a dumb move–it means no one else will ever sign a discount contract with the RSox, unless they also get either a no-trade clause or (at best) a clause in the contract that says their salary goes up significantly (where the market would have been, at least) if they are traded.

That said, Thomas is still tied for the team lead in HR, and had 11 walks in 16 games. (Also, one of five players on the BJays with more than 5 RBIs.)

By: JC

JC — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:24:42 +0000

I’m not sure what type of blow-back Toronto would take from benching Thomas. Players understand how contracts work and that this is a business. I think the White Sox invoking its diminished capacity clause on (coincidently) Thomas probably created more negative feedback, but it hasn’t stopped free agents from moving there. How about the Red Sox trading Arroyo after he signed at a discount?

While there may have been some repercussions for Toronto, I don’t think they warranted swallowing $7 million. That is some serious good will they are buying.

By: JC

JC — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:18:05 +0000

Bringing up Lind (which I don’t believe the Jays have done yet), even if he is Thomas’s equal, increases expenses by adding a salary. Also, the cost of using Lind isn’t his his just his salary but his opportunity cost. Because of his reserve status, he is valuable in a trade to another team. By playing Thomas and trading Lind to another club, the Jays could be better off. There are also some service time considerations that may impact his arbitration status.