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	<title>Comments on: Did Steroid Use Enhance the Performance of Mitchell Report Hitters?</title>
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	<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/08/did-steroid-use-enhance-the-performance-of-mitchell-report-hitters/</link>
	<description>Economic Thinking about Baseball</description>
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		<title>By: Marc Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/08/did-steroid-use-enhance-the-performance-of-mitchell-report-hitters/comment-page-1/#comment-104111</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=958#comment-104111</guid>
		<description>JC never claimed that this is a Braves blog.  If you want to talk about the Braves, go to Braves Journal.  As for Patrick, the old saying seems to apply that it&#039;s better to remain silent and let people think you are an idiot rather than speaking and removing all doubt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JC never claimed that this is a Braves blog.  If you want to talk about the Braves, go to Braves Journal.  As for Patrick, the old saying seems to apply that it&#8217;s better to remain silent and let people think you are an idiot rather than speaking and removing all doubt.</p>
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		<title>By: eman</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/08/did-steroid-use-enhance-the-performance-of-mitchell-report-hitters/comment-page-1/#comment-104107</link>
		<dc:creator>eman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=958#comment-104107</guid>
		<description>this study is a little flawed because we will never officially know who did and did not take steroids or other drugs. obviously there was an advantage for steroid users, but i have found that some players [like David Bell] used steroids and it negatively affected their production.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this study is a little flawed because we will never officially know who did and did not take steroids or other drugs. obviously there was an advantage for steroid users, but i have found that some players [like David Bell] used steroids and it negatively affected their production.</p>
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		<title>By: JC</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/08/did-steroid-use-enhance-the-performance-of-mitchell-report-hitters/comment-page-1/#comment-104103</link>
		<dc:creator>JC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=958#comment-104103</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;


Look, there are many possible ways this study could have been done. But there is no evidence that the quibbles you are pointing out would have SYSTEMATICALLY biased the results.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

1. My main &quot;quibble&quot; is that the paper suffers from obvious coding errors. In academic journals, such errors normally result in a paper being retracted from publication unless the authors demonstrate that the errors are not major. 
2. Actually, there is evidence that the errors bias the results, and the evidence is provided by the authors. When the mis-coded Bonds is excluded from the sample, steroid use is no longer associated with improved performance. 



&lt;blockquote&gt;
Now, I have a sneaking suspicion JC is going to censor this comment. And if so, then fine, it’s your blog, do what you like: But get over it already.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Patrick, if that is his real name, has been submitting comments for some time under the names of real people (baseball players, GMs, etc.) . I would have kindly asked him to stop, but he always submits a fake e-mail. I was hoping a ban might cause him to contact me so that I could tell him in private that I would like him to stop posting under other people&#039;s names.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>Look, there are many possible ways this study could have been done. But there is no evidence that the quibbles you are pointing out would have SYSTEMATICALLY biased the results.</p></blockquote>
<p>1. My main &#8220;quibble&#8221; is that the paper suffers from obvious coding errors. In academic journals, such errors normally result in a paper being retracted from publication unless the authors demonstrate that the errors are not major.<br />
2. Actually, there is evidence that the errors bias the results, and the evidence is provided by the authors. When the mis-coded Bonds is excluded from the sample, steroid use is no longer associated with improved performance. </p>
<blockquote><p>
Now, I have a sneaking suspicion JC is going to censor this comment. And if so, then fine, it’s your blog, do what you like: But get over it already.</p></blockquote>
<p>Patrick, if that is his real name, has been submitting comments for some time under the names of real people (baseball players, GMs, etc.) . I would have kindly asked him to stop, but he always submits a fake e-mail. I was hoping a ban might cause him to contact me so that I could tell him in private that I would like him to stop posting under other people&#8217;s names.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/08/did-steroid-use-enhance-the-performance-of-mitchell-report-hitters/comment-page-1/#comment-104102</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=958#comment-104102</guid>
		<description>Look, there are many possible ways this study could have been done. But there is no evidence that the quibbles you are pointing out would have SYSTEMATICALLY biased the results.

It seems like JC is just bitter that HE is not the one getting the attention and credit for doing this study

Now, I have a sneaking suspicion JC is going to censor this comment.  And if so, then fine, it&#039;s your blog, do what you like: But get over it already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, there are many possible ways this study could have been done. But there is no evidence that the quibbles you are pointing out would have SYSTEMATICALLY biased the results.</p>
<p>It seems like JC is just bitter that HE is not the one getting the attention and credit for doing this study</p>
<p>Now, I have a sneaking suspicion JC is going to censor this comment.  And if so, then fine, it&#8217;s your blog, do what you like: But get over it already.</p>
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		<title>By: justafan72</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/08/did-steroid-use-enhance-the-performance-of-mitchell-report-hitters/comment-page-1/#comment-104097</link>
		<dc:creator>justafan72</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=958#comment-104097</guid>
		<description>Geez, ANOTHER HGH-STEROIDS article? How about some analysis of whether or not the Braves should fire TP as the batting coach? Can we measure a batting coach&#039;s impact?

Or, how about a preview of some of free agents and their numbers? Something other than this dead horse..please, pretty please?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, ANOTHER HGH-STEROIDS article? How about some analysis of whether or not the Braves should fire TP as the batting coach? Can we measure a batting coach&#8217;s impact?</p>
<p>Or, how about a preview of some of free agents and their numbers? Something other than this dead horse..please, pretty please?</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Houghton</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/08/did-steroid-use-enhance-the-performance-of-mitchell-report-hitters/comment-page-1/#comment-104087</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Houghton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 23:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=958#comment-104087</guid>
		<description>So McGwire&#039;s best season and Bonds&#039;s best season are those where they appear to have been clean, at least judging by reality (as opposed to the whitewash that is the Mitchell Report).

I believe it was an umpire talking about Mike Scott (during his resurgence with the Astros, pitching against Gary Carter and the Mets) who once observed, &quot;They challenged his first pitch, which was clean.  Therefore, he had demonstrated what he could do with a ball, and I had no reason for suspicion for the rest of the game.&quot;

When Clemens is admitted and Bonds rejected, can we just rename the building in Cooperstown as &quot;Not Just the Ball Must Be White&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So McGwire&#8217;s best season and Bonds&#8217;s best season are those where they appear to have been clean, at least judging by reality (as opposed to the whitewash that is the Mitchell Report).</p>
<p>I believe it was an umpire talking about Mike Scott (during his resurgence with the Astros, pitching against Gary Carter and the Mets) who once observed, &#8220;They challenged his first pitch, which was clean.  Therefore, he had demonstrated what he could do with a ball, and I had no reason for suspicion for the rest of the game.&#8221;</p>
<p>When Clemens is admitted and Bonds rejected, can we just rename the building in Cooperstown as &#8220;Not Just the Ball Must Be White&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon H</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/08/did-steroid-use-enhance-the-performance-of-mitchell-report-hitters/comment-page-1/#comment-104083</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=958#comment-104083</guid>
		<description>With little if any evidence of who actually DID and DID NOT do PED&#039;s over the last 5, 10, 15, 20+ years the author is simply hypothesizing that those who took them &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; took them when the the Mitchell report concluded.

For example. Could I watch a game in which Mike Cameron hit 4 home runs, then walk away asserting that Mike Cameron hits 4 home runs a game?

Comparing &#039;known&#039; users to those who did not use is simply hypothetical. There is not any conclusive evidence to argue one way or another. Do we know that steroids helped Alex Sanchez get to the majors, did they help him stay in the majors, or did they prohibit him from becoming a better hitter? Will we ever know?

Honestly, we will not. Even when we know which players used and did not use, the evidence will simply become hypothetical. How would Alex Sanchez perform in a non-steroid era?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With little if any evidence of who actually DID and DID NOT do PED&#8217;s over the last 5, 10, 15, 20+ years the author is simply hypothesizing that those who took them <em>only</em> took them when the the Mitchell report concluded.</p>
<p>For example. Could I watch a game in which Mike Cameron hit 4 home runs, then walk away asserting that Mike Cameron hits 4 home runs a game?</p>
<p>Comparing &#8216;known&#8217; users to those who did not use is simply hypothetical. There is not any conclusive evidence to argue one way or another. Do we know that steroids helped Alex Sanchez get to the majors, did they help him stay in the majors, or did they prohibit him from becoming a better hitter? Will we ever know?</p>
<p>Honestly, we will not. Even when we know which players used and did not use, the evidence will simply become hypothetical. How would Alex Sanchez perform in a non-steroid era?</p>
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