Comments on: SGT: Sabermetric Groupthink

By: A Response To What’s Been Going On | Capitol Avenue Club

A Response To What’s Been Going On | Capitol Avenue Club — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:35:41 +0000

[...] the issue. Both Rob Neyer and JC Bradbury (and Bradbury followed up Neyer’s response with another of his own) wrote responses to the article, but Joe Posnanski predictably wrote the best response. However, [...]

By: James K.

James K. — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:59:27 +0000

Let me get this straight. You:

- don’t buy the “replacement level” concept
- are OK with the term “sabermetric groupthink”
- have a blog called “Sabernomics”

First 2 aren’t consistent with the 3rd. Weird.

By: Melvin Nieves

Melvin Nieves — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:03:15 +0000

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/should_a_pitcher_have_a_fair_chance_at_the_mvp/

Here’s one of the leaders of the Sabermetric Groupthink chastising anyone who dare speak ill of Joe Mauer.

No wait, what’s the opposite of that? Oh yes, he’s arguing in favor of an AL MVP candidate who isn’t Joe Mauer.

This is why it’s dangerous to lump an entire discipline, roughly defined as “people who think critically about baseball” into one group, with one supposed opinion, without offering any evidence of such.

By: Melvin Nieves

Melvin Nieves — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:30:58 +0000

Frankly, I don’t trust Rosenthal to accurately evaluate the sabermetric community. He has appeared to lecture a blogger on “standards” without bothering to read the article in question. His presumption that sabermetricians are using VORP, runs created, or win shares shows a poor understanding of the discipline in it’s current form, yet Rosenthal is still willing to generalize and criticize it.

And watching that video I posted, it certainly isn’t the blogger who appears snooty.

Here’s Joe Posnaski’s response, and my favorite paragraph:

“I don’t buy that Sabermetrics are much more respected inside the game now than ever before. And I don’t buy that statistically inclined bloggers are the new power structure in baseball. The mainstream media is still, you know, mainstream. I don’t know how many television and radio announcers use advanced stats. I don’t know how many columnists and beat writers use advanced stats. I don’t know how many scouts and baseball executives talk about stats. But when I go from game to game on radio or TV or read my favorite newspapers, I don’t find myself bogged down with a lot of numbers, to say the least. I’ve got to believe that Ken’s whole notion that baseball bloggers are so powerful and overbearing that they are stifling free speech and people’s willingness to push for Derek Jeter as MVP over Joe Mauer is pretty comical.

…

The power of the best baseball bloggers is that they try to pierce through vagueness and wave away myth and get at the heart of things. Sometimes, they do. Sometimes, they don’t. But, to a new generation of sports fans, it makes a lot more sense than saying: “This guy’s just a winner.” ”

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/09/17/a-free-country/

By: JC

JC — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:03:21 +0000

Good catch on “tenants,” Elton. Thanks. I have fixed it.

By: Elton

Elton — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:56:20 +0000

I’m pretty pro-sabermetric, but I can agree that the saber community can come off as very arrogant, and that doesn’t help the cause.

(By the way, I think you mean “tenet” instead of “tenant”, although if there’s a sabermetric rental community then I’d be interested to hear about it.)