Comments on: The Best Few Paragraphs I’ve Read Today http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/09/the-best-few-paragraphs-ive-read-today/ Economic Thinking about Baseball Sun, 09 Jan 2011 17:16:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: A Response To What’s Been Going On | Capitol Avenue Club http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/09/the-best-few-paragraphs-ive-read-today/comment-page-1/#comment-106410 A Response To What’s Been Going On | Capitol Avenue Club Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:33:37 +0000 http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=1732#comment-106410 [...] everyone’s throat relentlessly and discouraging debate on the issue.  Both Rob Neyer and JC Bradbury (and Bradbury followed up Neyer’s response with another of his own) wrote responses to the [...] [...] everyone’s throat relentlessly and discouraging debate on the issue.  Both Rob Neyer and JC Bradbury (and Bradbury followed up Neyer’s response with another of his own) wrote responses to the [...]

]]> By: JC http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/09/the-best-few-paragraphs-ive-read-today/comment-page-1/#comment-106394 JC Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:23:09 +0000 http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=1732#comment-106394 I like Neyer, but "in sabermetrics there's really no such thing as groupthink"? What sabermetrics is and what it strives to be are two different things. All groups suffer from groupthink, sabermetrics is no different than other groups. Rosenthal isn't denying advances made by sabermetrics---he seems to agree that Mauer is his choice for MVP (as is mine)---but taking on the unnecessarily arrogant tone with regard to the correctness of certain tenets that are pushed by its club members. Flooding the inboxes of sports writers with VORP-laden snarky commentary doesn't help the movement. Sabermetrics includes some science, but it is not all objective analysis immune from clubish behavior motivated by social aspects. I like Neyer, but “in sabermetrics there’s really no such thing as groupthink”? What sabermetrics is and what it strives to be are two different things. All groups suffer from groupthink, sabermetrics is no different than other groups. Rosenthal isn’t denying advances made by sabermetrics—he seems to agree that Mauer is his choice for MVP (as is mine)—but taking on the unnecessarily arrogant tone with regard to the correctness of certain tenets that are pushed by its club members. Flooding the inboxes of sports writers with VORP-laden snarky commentary doesn’t help the movement. Sabermetrics includes some science, but it is not all objective analysis immune from clubish behavior motivated by social aspects.

]]> By: Melvin Nieves http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/09/the-best-few-paragraphs-ive-read-today/comment-page-1/#comment-106392 Melvin Nieves Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:57:37 +0000 http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=1732#comment-106392 Rob Neyer's response: "In fact, in sabermetrics there's really no such thing as groupthink. If you've spent any real time with sabermetricians, you know exactly what I mean. Is there a consensus among sabermetricians that Joe Mauer deserves the MVP? Yeah, probably. But "consensus" is not the same as "groupthink." Not nearly the same. Groupthink (according to The Big W) is "a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas." That's the exact opposite of sabermetrics, which at its very heart is nothing but critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas." http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-5-70/Groupthink--sabermetrics--and-Joe-Mauer.html Ken Rosenthal's opinion on new media is hardly something to get behind considering some of his other poorly thought out arguments. http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4249289&categoryid=null Rob Neyer’s response:

“In fact, in sabermetrics there’s really no such thing as groupthink. If you’ve spent any real time with sabermetricians, you know exactly what I mean.

Is there a consensus among sabermetricians that Joe Mauer deserves the MVP? Yeah, probably. But “consensus” is not the same as “groupthink.”

Not nearly the same. Groupthink (according to The Big W) is “a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas.”

That’s the exact opposite of sabermetrics, which at its very heart is nothing but critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas.”

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-5-70/Groupthink–sabermetrics–and-Joe-Mauer.html

Ken Rosenthal’s opinion on new media is hardly something to get behind considering some of his other poorly thought out arguments.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4249289&categoryid=null

]]> By: Chad D http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/09/the-best-few-paragraphs-ive-read-today/comment-page-1/#comment-106391 Chad D Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:35:40 +0000 http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=1732#comment-106391 It's all about value, not stats. For example, a Derek Jeter signed baseball has a very different value to a Yankees fan than a Red Sox fan. Stats can help but there should always be a intangible value given to the winning MVP. It’s all about value, not stats. For example, a Derek Jeter signed baseball has a very different value to a Yankees fan than a Red Sox fan. Stats can help but there should always be a intangible value given to the winning MVP.

]]> By: P. W. Hjort http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/09/the-best-few-paragraphs-ive-read-today/comment-page-1/#comment-106390 P. W. Hjort Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:51:13 +0000 http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=1732#comment-106390 I generally don't like Rosenthal's work, but he couldn't be more right. I generally don’t like Rosenthal’s work, but he couldn’t be more right.

]]>