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	<title>Comments on: More on Player Aging</title>
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	<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/</link>
	<description>Economic Thinking about Baseball</description>
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		<title>By: JC</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/comment-page-1/#comment-106970</link>
		<dc:creator>JC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=2166#comment-106970</guid>
		<description>Lwts. No drop, I am just rounding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lwts. No drop, I am just rounding.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Birnbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/comment-page-1/#comment-106969</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Birnbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=2166#comment-106969</guid>
		<description>The last curve in your post, the one with lower minimums ... is that LWTS?  And are you saying the inclusion of the new players caused the peak to drop from 29.4 to 29.0?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last curve in your post, the one with lower minimums &#8230; is that LWTS?  And are you saying the inclusion of the new players caused the peak to drop from 29.4 to 29.0?</p>
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		<title>By: Grst</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/comment-page-1/#comment-106952</link>
		<dc:creator>Grst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=2166#comment-106952</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s been accepted that the Delta method is the best way to go, and you haven’t yet convinced me – or apparently, very smart guys like Phil or Tango – that your method is more correct.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, if it&#039;s been accepted, then clearly it must be superior.  No explanation, reasoning or facts necessary once a group of &quot;very smart guys&quot; has been designated to think for the rest of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It’s been accepted that the Delta method is the best way to go, and you haven’t yet convinced me – or apparently, very smart guys like Phil or Tango – that your method is more correct.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, if it&#8217;s been accepted, then clearly it must be superior.  No explanation, reasoning or facts necessary once a group of &#8220;very smart guys&#8221; has been designated to think for the rest of us.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Birnbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/comment-page-1/#comment-106946</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Birnbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=2166#comment-106946</guid>
		<description>Makes sense, thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes sense, thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: JC</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/comment-page-1/#comment-106945</link>
		<dc:creator>JC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=2166#comment-106945</guid>
		<description>The coefficient estimates for age and age&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt; each have their own standard errors and confidence intervals. The problem for finding the range of the peak is that you can&#039;t move one without moving the other; it&#039;s like hitting a baseball while standing on a skateboard.  The estimation technique has provided the &quot;best&quot; estimates to minimize prediction error, which I use to estimates the peak on the function. The confidence interval bounds will lie above and below the best fit curve, and will be similarly shaped. Thus, the peak will be similar.  Think up-and-down with the confidence intervals, not left-to-right. 

Calculating the exact confidence interval around the maximum or minimum from quadratic regression estimates is difficult. I don&#039;t know of a text that discusses this specific issue. If you would like to take a crack at it, here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://repec.org/esAUSM04/up.11216.1077841765.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a paper&lt;/a&gt; that discusses two methods. If you want to see a rough measure how the peak might differ, you could take the extreme bounds for each variable&#039;s confidence interval (positive for age and negative for age&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;, and vice versa) the peak age estimates range from 29.28 to 29.5. But, you can&#039;t hold one constant and push the other to its extreme, because that would generate a shape far different from best estimate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The coefficient estimates for age and age<sup>2</sup> each have their own standard errors and confidence intervals. The problem for finding the range of the peak is that you can&#8217;t move one without moving the other; it&#8217;s like hitting a baseball while standing on a skateboard.  The estimation technique has provided the &#8220;best&#8221; estimates to minimize prediction error, which I use to estimates the peak on the function. The confidence interval bounds will lie above and below the best fit curve, and will be similarly shaped. Thus, the peak will be similar.  Think up-and-down with the confidence intervals, not left-to-right. </p>
<p>Calculating the exact confidence interval around the maximum or minimum from quadratic regression estimates is difficult. I don&#8217;t know of a text that discusses this specific issue. If you would like to take a crack at it, here&#8217;s <a href="http://repec.org/esAUSM04/up.11216.1077841765.pdf" rel="nofollow">a paper</a> that discusses two methods. If you want to see a rough measure how the peak might differ, you could take the extreme bounds for each variable&#8217;s confidence interval (positive for age and negative for age<sup>2</sup>, and vice versa) the peak age estimates range from 29.28 to 29.5. But, you can&#8217;t hold one constant and push the other to its extreme, because that would generate a shape far different from best estimate.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Birnbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/comment-page-1/#comment-106943</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Birnbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=2166#comment-106943</guid>
		<description>&gt;&quot;That is not an appropriate way to manipulate the estimates.&quot;

You&#039;re right.  Not even close.  I should have realized that.  

If you do know a way to calculate the SE of the peak age, and you have a reference, I&#039;ll look it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&#8221;That is not an appropriate way to manipulate the estimates.&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right.  Not even close.  I should have realized that.  </p>
<p>If you do know a way to calculate the SE of the peak age, and you have a reference, I&#8217;ll look it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Birnbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/comment-page-1/#comment-106942</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Birnbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=2166#comment-106942</guid>
		<description>Hi, JC,

Fair enough ... those confidence intervals look too wide.  Is there a specific section of either (or any) textbook that talks about calculating the standard error of a function of two of the coefficients?

Were you able to calculate a standard error for peak age yourself?  It seems like a wild goose chase hunting down textbooks if there&#039;s no obvious way to answer the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, JC,</p>
<p>Fair enough &#8230; those confidence intervals look too wide.  Is there a specific section of either (or any) textbook that talks about calculating the standard error of a function of two of the coefficients?</p>
<p>Were you able to calculate a standard error for peak age yourself?  It seems like a wild goose chase hunting down textbooks if there&#8217;s no obvious way to answer the question.</p>
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		<title>By: JC</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/comment-page-1/#comment-106941</link>
		<dc:creator>JC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=2166#comment-106941</guid>
		<description>That is not an appropriate way to manipulate the estimates. I suggest consulting an econometrics textbook to gain a better understanding of multiple regression analysis. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Econometrics-Peter-Kennedy/dp/1405182571/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A Guide to Econometrics&lt;/a&gt; by Kennedy is a good cheap option that is not a traditional textbook. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Mostly-Harmless-Econometrics-Empiricists-Companion/dp/0691120358/ref=pd_sim_b_2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mostly Harmless Econometrics&lt;/a&gt; looks to be another good introduction. I haven&#039;t read it, but I have heard good things about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is not an appropriate way to manipulate the estimates. I suggest consulting an econometrics textbook to gain a better understanding of multiple regression analysis. <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Econometrics-Peter-Kennedy/dp/1405182571/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1" rel="nofollow">A Guide to Econometrics</a> by Kennedy is a good cheap option that is not a traditional textbook. <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Mostly-Harmless-Econometrics-Empiricists-Companion/dp/0691120358/ref=pd_sim_b_2" rel="nofollow">Mostly Harmless Econometrics</a> looks to be another good introduction. I haven&#8217;t read it, but I have heard good things about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Birnbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/comment-page-1/#comment-106940</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Birnbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=2166#comment-106940</guid>
		<description>Actually, I think your estimate is perfectly consistent with a peak of 27.

I&#039;ll illustrate for your LWTS estimate of 29.41 years (first column of Table III).

Holding the estimate for age (beta1) constant, and bumping the coefficient for age^2 (beta2) up by 2 standard errors (as obtained from Table III), you get a peak age of about 25.  If you bump the coefficient *down* by 2 standard errors, your new estimate for peak age is about 36.

(Using -beta1/(2 * beta2) as stated in the text.)

So not even considering a confidence interval for beta1, using the 95% confidence interval for beta2 gives an interval of (25, 36).  

That doesn&#039;t seem like it contradicts the other studies putting peak age at 27.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I think your estimate is perfectly consistent with a peak of 27.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll illustrate for your LWTS estimate of 29.41 years (first column of Table III).</p>
<p>Holding the estimate for age (beta1) constant, and bumping the coefficient for age^2 (beta2) up by 2 standard errors (as obtained from Table III), you get a peak age of about 25.  If you bump the coefficient *down* by 2 standard errors, your new estimate for peak age is about 36.</p>
<p>(Using -beta1/(2 * beta2) as stated in the text.)</p>
<p>So not even considering a confidence interval for beta1, using the 95% confidence interval for beta2 gives an interval of (25, 36).  </p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t seem like it contradicts the other studies putting peak age at 27.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Birnbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/11/more-on-player-aging/comment-page-1/#comment-106938</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Birnbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/?p=2166#comment-106938</guid>
		<description>Sorry ... you&#039;re right, I was a bit unclear.

I mean the model does not assume that every player has a random trajectory (and therefore peak age) chosen from some distribution.  It assumes that there is one fixed trajectory and peak age (because beta1 and beta2 in equation 1 are not indexed by player).

I was mistakenly thinking that every player can have his own trajectory and therefore his own peak age, and you were estimating the mean of those peak ages.  But it looks like your model assumes that peak age is the same for all players, and you&#039;re finding an estimate of that single peak age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry &#8230; you&#8217;re right, I was a bit unclear.</p>
<p>I mean the model does not assume that every player has a random trajectory (and therefore peak age) chosen from some distribution.  It assumes that there is one fixed trajectory and peak age (because beta1 and beta2 in equation 1 are not indexed by player).</p>
<p>I was mistakenly thinking that every player can have his own trajectory and therefore his own peak age, and you were estimating the mean of those peak ages.  But it looks like your model assumes that peak age is the same for all players, and you&#8217;re finding an estimate of that single peak age.</p>
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